How To Register Dynacorn 69 Fastback
| Author | Topic: Tin can of Worms... Dynacorn rebodies |
| sigtauenus Gearhead Posts: 3969 |  posted xi-02-2006 09:xvi AM   I take seen this discussed on a couple other sites, simply based on the responses from the post I fabricated in the classified section, I figure we should discuss information technology here, too. The event is this: Dynacorn is producing total replacement bodies, currently the 69 Camaro convertible, and presently to be released 67 Mustang fastback. Searching their site gives indication that they volition soon exercise 69 Mustang Fastbacks, with the intention to somewhen practice all early on Mustang fastbacks, probably convertibles too, equally well as the Camaro's, Chevelles, etc. Once you buy this replacement trunk, what practice you exercise with it? Since kit cars have been out forever, manifestly you could apply for a state VIN and title it equally a kit auto. What about the choice of transferring the VIN from an original body to a replacement torso? What happens when you lot have a 67 fastback that is a total basket example that needs EVERYTHING. If you lot have to supercede all of the frame track, quarters, floors, roof, front aprons, etc, and practice it all in your garage with your harbor freight welder, what do you take when its washed? A rebuilt car with all new sheetmetal, and no Ford punched VIN'southward anywhere on the car. The fashion I sympathize the law, if you were to buy a punch set, or have Marti restamp a fender apron for you, or have Glaziers stamp the frock for you, or y'all scab in the original fender apron VIN's, you have broken the police force. Simply, this happens all the fourth dimension and nobody complains. Why? Because you ain the car, you own the VIN, you have a championship with the VIN on information technology, and you end upwardly with a car with the VIN on it that matches the title that you own. No fraud was commited, however, legally, you lot tampered with/contradistinct a VIN. Now enter Dynacorn's 67 fastback body. Instead of buying $4,000 in sheetmetal and spending g hours welding information technology all together, you buy a $ten,000 replacement body with DOT certified welds, and transfer the VIN on the apron to the new torso. Yous and so take the old trunk that you had, cut it into small pieces, and take them to the junk yard for scrap or to the landfill. The end effect is that you own the motorcar, yous own the VIN, you accept a title with the VIN on it, and you stop up with a car with the VIN on it that matches the title that you own. No fraud was commited, withal, legally, you tampered with/altered a VIN. What is the difference? Here are some other threads on this. Don't fry me on this, just since the Camaro trunk came out first, this has been discussed a lot there... Camaro Forum, respond half manner down from the company (CARS) in NC doing the manufacturing (note, link is to folio 3 of 7 page thread) Dominate 302 Forum, reference to laws 49 USC 30112-30115 (doesn't help much, but is referenced in the first link) Dynacorn's FAQ (notation get-go one addresses VIN) I have seen numerous people who say that this is totally illegal to transfer the VIN. I know it is in Indiana and several other states. I'1000 still personally tracking this down, just I know that in that location are states that volition legally allow you to do this if yous own the motorcar, have it titled in your name, and take the VIN transfer verified and inspected by an officer of the state. If yous know that it is in fact illegal in your state to do and so, that is fine, delight provide the code that specifies that and then I don't have to look it up. Notwithstanding, just because it is illegal in your state doesn't mean it is illegal in all 50 states. The codes referenced above are in the context of criminal intent, ie fraud. Once again, some states DO allow you lot to legally transfer a VIN, I'k still looking upward the state code that permit'southward this. [This message has been edited past sigtauenus (edited 11-02-2006).] |
| indyphil Gearhead Posts: 3394 | posted xi-02-2006 09:33 AM Its seems silly for some states to differ. If its illegal in Indiana but legal in Illinois, so what does indiana do when someone who did this in Illinois moves to Indiana? They requite them the title none the wiser? |
| Fastback68 Gearhead Posts: 4511 | posted 11-02-2006 09:46 AM Ah ha! The Robo Cop syndrome. There are ii aspects here, correct? The legal aspect as relates to fraud - that kind of stuff is decided by lawmakers, and no one should be surprised if the lawmakers' decisions don't jive with their ideas. It's like when I'm beingness a smart ass, I ask people to ascertain a goal in football. It actually has goose egg to do with whether the ball crosses the line or non. It only matters that the referee says the brawl crossed the line. That's a goal. If the feds say it'southward fraud, it's fraud. Then there'southward the ethical question - very important to matching-numbers restorers, etc. I face this result with my mestiso GT every time someone asks. I'grand not selling it, but if I were, I KNOW that the GT thing really affects the value, even though in my opinion, on a 67-viii, it shouldn't. And then I would be ethically wrong to prevarication about its history. I'd be perfectly within my rights to keep my rima oris shut though. Personally I accept zippo interest in VINs except how they, sadly, impact the value of the auto. So if someone wants to rebody and go to all the length of transferring the VIN, good luck to them. To me, the soul of a car is its chassis, and then Mustangs aren't afflicted. If someone sold me a Chinese Camaro torso on a Chinese Camaro CHASSIS, with a genuine 60s VIN, then I'd be pissed! Information technology's all very muddied! [This bulletin has been edited by Fastback68 (edited eleven-02-2006).] |
| Dave Gibson Moderator Posts: 10769 | posted eleven-02-2006 11:34 AM I don't have a problem with moving the Vin from a rusted hulk to a new body as long as y'all have all the documentation to dorsum it. I mean pictures, title and the newspaper work to evidence it. If you practise go to sell the automobile/trcuk/classic I would have a problem if you didn't tell folks upfront that the torso is new and the Vin has been transfered. Every bit long every bit all is maintained higher up board, I'grand fine with it. Notwithstanding, in this day and age, at that place volition ever be a few out there that will ruin it for us every day folks that bask our classics. It's called greed. Dave & Terri ------------------ |
| 69 Sportsroof Gearhead Posts: 2814 | posted 11-02-2006 11:34 AM I think y'all go into ii different aspects of fraud with these bodies. First, if you sell the car as an early on model motorcar, that'south fraud. Ok. And so you keep the car with your antique tags and little to no vehicle/highway taxes. That'southward fraud likewise. In Alabam, the deal about antique tags is that you've already paid xxx years of taxes on a car so you lot should be exempt, thus the mileage restrictions. It is a big tin can of worms and I'1000 afraid it'southward going to wind back upwards in Dynacorn's lap. The only culling I can recall of is Dynacorn having to utilize a VIN and register it with the state in which it is sold/delivered. |
| Dreamcometrue Gearhead Posts: 903 | posted 11-02-2006 11:51 AM What is the difference with taking an unrusted 68 fastback with a 289, brand it a shell and reinstall in it all the pieces from a 428CJ and claim to have a restored CJ? That, I would have a problem with. Those Dynacorn bodies will be a great way to restore a auto that otherwise would take been parted. Rino  |
| mellowyellow Gearhead Posts: 8198 | posted 11-02-2006 01:35 PM Anyone know what the result was re Boyd Coddington titleing street rods, ie 34 Fords, etc. Seems that Ca. stepped into the deal and information technology went to court. Didn't feel like reading all that Sam posted but am saving it to read later. Interesting. Re the Eleanors, etc, incertitude that a new vin would make much departure as they are getting Shelby numbers anyhow. Sure will enhance component parts prices, interior pieces, etc. |
| sigtauenus Gearhead Posts: 3969 | posted 11-02-2006 01:46 PM Here's an interesting read... http://isearch.nhtsa.gov/files/6983r.html Something to consider... I call back it can be agreed upon that information technology is illegal to transfer a VIN from 1 car to some other. The case above being taking the VIN from a 428 and installing it on a car that was originally a 289 car. Each automobile has its own history and its own VIN. The VIN is assigned past the manufacturer to a fully assembled vehicle. The replacement body sold past Dynacorn is just a body. It has no engine, manual, rear end, suspension, interior, etc. It is only a body. The way I read that link above from NHTSA is that a chassis is considered an associates that includes the engine, transmission, rear cease, suspension, etc. In this context, Dynacorn is selling a replacement body that does non have a VIN nor does it require ane, nor is it considered a chassis. Based on that info in a higher place, if you at present take your 428 VIN and attach it to a Dynacorn trunk, and then reinstall all of the original engine, transmission, rear finish, pause, etc, you have non remanufactured the vehicle and do not require a new VIN. I am making the assumption based on the fact that that letter was written in the context of trucks, and admit that the same letter may have been drastically different if information technology had been addressing passenger cars. The deviation I see, is that in one case, you lot are transferring a VIN from i car that at one time had been manufactured as a whole vehicle with its own history to another vehicle that hab been manufactured as a whole vehicle with its own history, and in the other case, y'all are transferring a VIN from one machine that at one time had been manufactured as a whole vehicle with its own history to a replacement body that is essentially a clean slate, a bare canvass, with no previous history. I see a distinct difference between the two. I don't like being told I cannot do something the correct way because somebody else might do it the wrong way. If I have a rust bucket, and am able to transfer the VIN to a Dynacorn body within the legal statutes of my land, I should be able to do so. I am the caliber of person who volition fully disclose that fact upon selling the vehicle, fifty-fifty if such disclosure diminishes the value of the vehicle. Whether or not somebody else volition do the aforementioned matter should not prevent me from doing that inside the limit of the constabulary. Opinions grow on this subject field. There is the result of what is legal or non, what should exist legal or not, and what is ethical or not. Those things don't e'er happen to exist the aforementioned. Here's another situation to assess regarding legalities and ethics. If I rebuild a rusted out hulk with replacement parts, and weld it all upwardly in my garage with a harbor freight special, and then sell the vehicle as-is, what happens when the new owner is driving downward the highway, and my welds come autonomously, the machine disintegrates and the new owner is killed. Am I responsible since it was my welds that were faulty? Even if I sold it as-is? I practise not know. I suspect I would non exist legally responsible, but ethically, I run across that as my fault. Now, I know that is farthermost, but how many of yous have bought Mustangs with bad welds, or pop-riveted floor pans, etc? Would it not exist better and safer on the hereafter possessor, particularly for inexperienced hobbyist, to be able to accept a fully assembled body with DOT certified welds than run the take a chance of a crappy restoration coming apart on him? Now we go dorsum to, well, the buyer would surely find a bad restoration and know what he was getting into. I offer the corollary, that if somebody is going to spend $100,000, $150,000, $200,000 on a Shelby or Boss 302, etc, they had better exist able to inspect it and recognize if information technology is in fact an original body or a Dynacorn body. If you can't brand that determination, you should either have enough money that you lot don't care, or IMHO y'all have no business buying that machine. Caveat Emptor. I actually am not trying to champion the Dynacorn bodies here, merely trying to invoke some thoughtful discussion of the subject. |
| sigtauenus Gearhead Posts: 3969 | posted 11-02-2006 01:53 PM After thinking well-nigh that letter of the alphabet responding to the question near the trucks I posted higher up, I think I will just write my ain letter to NHTSA and come across what they say. Edit: I merely got off the phone with the Virginia DMV. Co-ordinate to Jamie, at 800-435-5137, if there is no "document of origin" issued for the replacement body, I am allowed nether VA law to transfer the VIN to the replacement body. In one case the piece of work is complete, I tin have a country inspector/investigator come out to verify the work complete. The local investigator for Virginia Beach is Cassandra Hardy at 757-455-0881. [This bulletin has been edited by sigtauenus (edited eleven-02-2006).] |
Copyright 2006, Steve LaRiviere. All Rights Reserved.
How To Register Dynacorn 69 Fastback,
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